Advice on Copedent Change

[David W.D. McCormick]

I am going to add a pedal to my S10 3x5 and have been obsessing over what change to install. Below is where I've landed in terms of planned copedent. I have fallen in love with the F#=>G# raise mostly for replicating AB licks in the no-pedals position and use the unison changes at strings 1 & 2 a lot. But I also love the G#=>F# lower which I would split with the B pedal so as to get (1) the V chord move at the no pedals position; and (2) the G lowers to manipulate the thirds - I really like the slide down to a no-pedals minor chord. The basic idea is to put my string 1/2/7 raises on the new pedal at the P4 position (versus P0?) and put the G lower on LKR. Would appreciate any thoughts on this and whether this is a dumb idea generally. I haven't really contemplated other changes like a Franklin pedal but am open to suggestions.

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[Fred Treece]

I have the 1-2-7 raise on LKR so it can work with P1-P2 and P2-P3.

Since you think of your current LKR change (G#-G/G#-F#) as a no-pedals concept, maybe consider putting it on a 0 pedal or at P4, where it wouldn’t interact chordally with other pedals anyway.

[Mathew Peluso]

I have the same change as Fred - 1/2/7 raise to keep it independent of and still use with A/B but mine is on RKL. I lower 6 to F# with a fourth pedal and love it. Since I use those changes differently it works out well. I don’t use a split on that lower but I used to by having the lower on vertical. I didn’t use the split enough to justify having that on the vertical but that seems to be the most ergonomic way to accomplish it.

[Bill McCloskey]

I put the 1 + 2 raise on the RKL. The question is to raise the 7th string or lower the 6th along with it. By lowering the 6th string you get a great V chord (at the pedals up I position) by squeezing RKL and LKR (e's lowered) which is a very handy change to have. HOWEVER, I recently changed to 7th string raise because I have a Franklin pedal on the zero pedal and the combination of the 7th string raise with the Franklin pedal creates a really nice beautiful sounding chord which I find useful while the 6th string lower creates a discordant sound. And since I also follow both Franklin and Travis Toy's tutorials, there are licks they teach that can only work with the 7th string raise as opposed to a 6th string lower.

Like anything in pedal steel, there are tradeoffs. One change gives as well as takes. You just have to decide which you are happy to get, and which you don't miss losing.

[David W.D. McCormick]

Thank you gentlemen for your advice and helpful replies. I definitely need to mindful that you can't have it all!

[Cappone dAngelo]

Hey Dave!

I went through similar considerations, and ended up sacrificing the F#->G# raise in order to have a G#->F# lower.

My primary rationale is that the G# lower is more versatile (for me), in part because I can use it for legato moves with other grips that use the 6th string and because I can split it with other 6th-string changes. For example, I use the G#->F# lower a lot in the pedals down position to change it from a V chord to a V7 chord (for example, at fret 5 pedals down strings 6-5-4 are D-F#-A, then engaging the G#->F# lower changes the D to C for a 3rd inversion V7 chord). It also splits with the B pedal to create a minor chord (or, without the A pedal, there is a half-stop for another way to get a minor chord with pedals up). And I also use it for the "replicating AB licks in the no-pedals position". As for the 'V chord in pedals up position', I tend to use the A pedal more (for a V7), but the G#->F# is handy for when I don't want the 7th or where I'm doing suspensions and using it as 'half the Franklin pedal' (and I changed my Franklin pedal, as suggested by Paul himself in one of his videos, to just lower the Bs to A - so I can still do the full Franklin pedal move with the B->A pedal and the G#->F# lever together, or I can do one or the other, or I can use both but move them at different times - so it's super versatile).

I also have a G#->B raise, so with the G#->F# change I can go all the way from the F# to B on the 6th string, and anywhere in between (with splits).

Having the G#->F# lower on a pedal would be far less useful for me, as I use it quite a bit with my Pedal 0 (B->A) and Pedal A.
So I currently have the G#->F# change on the same knee as the 1-2 raise (LKR), and I haven't found it limiting, but I can see how some players would lose some vocabulary like unison/octave licks with strings 1 and 2. That probably just reflects my limited experience/knowledge on how to use strings 1 and 2 - I do use them, but rarely if ever in conjunction with strings 6 or 7. That said, my dream copedent - which I plan to implement once I can get the parts - has both the G# lower and the F# raise, and it would also add a 6th knee lever so I can have both a G#->B and a B->Bb knee.

Message me if you want to try my G2 with the G#->F# lower. I'm currently retired and mostly just playing music for the summer (until my wife makes me get a real job again ...) so I have some free time for the next while if you want to come by my place and check it out.

Cheers!
Cappone

[Larry Hamilton]

If it works for you do it. If it don’t, you can change. Over the past 50 years. I’ve made several changes and I’m not sure I’m done yet. So do what makes you happy for right now. No judgment. Looks like a good change to me.

[David W.D. McCormick]

Thanks folks! Larry I think that is excellent wisdom.

[Steve Leal]

Hi David.

My setup is just like yours, except I raise 1,2,7 on a knee lever and lower 6 on my zero pedal. Works out great for me this way.

Have fun!