Another Slipping Legs Topic

[Jerry Overstreet]

Yeah, I know, we been over this ad nauseum, but I guess knowledge retention is waning with age.

Here's the deal. I have some new to me legs. They are in great shape but too short. I used some set collars to set the height but the legs won't hold the guitar up no matter how much I tighten the clutch, even with pliers.

The guitar is a D10 Fender Artist and weight is about the same as the Super Pro or other modern pedal steel.

I've pretty much just given up and put some dowels in the front legs for now. Of course, the height can't be adjusted but that's OK since the front legs won't ever need it anyway.

These legs are in great shape though. All the parts look fine, the tube threads seem perfect, but I still used the Ricky Davis method of cleaning and lubing. They just won't hold.

Here are a couple pics of my extension method and of the internal clutch parts which I'm pretty sure I have assembled correctly. Not a great pic, but the bevel is toward the split bushing all toward the clutch nut. Thoughts?

PA271002.JPG

[Tucker Jackson]

Hi, Jerry. I'm no expert, but I think maybe the beveled side of the brass ring should face the beveled side of the brown plastic ring. Those are the parts that mate; bevel male of the plastic ring goes to bevel female of the metal ring. Maybe give that a try and see if it works better. You can also try snipping the plastic ring so there is a slightly larger opening. That can possibly get you a little more leeway for the ring to compress 'closed' a little more.

Also, I'm not sure about the order of the rings. I have legs where they are reversed from your photo, with copper colored metal ring put on the leg first, then the plastic ring. But I'm not sure why the order should matter...

[Jerry Overstreet]

Yes well, that is the way the beveled ring and the nylon bushing are assembled. Beveled edge of washer faces belveled edge of nylon bushing....flat side of washer against leg tube.

Other than that, I'm unsure of the order of those parts. I've tried reversing the order but it doesn't make any difference.

[Tucker Jackson]

OK, good. The photo was fuzzy enough that it looked like the plastic ring's bevel was facing the other way, away from the metal ring.

I've seen suggestions of cleaning the plastic ring and the leg with rubbing alcohol to get any oils off. Really, I've had poor luck with that, but it's worth a try. I've had rings that had almost no clearance in the split. Opening that up helped a little so that when compressed, it could more fully close down and grab onto that inner tube.

[Dan Beller-McKenna]

Any time I've used spacers on the front legs, they've made contact with the top of the pedal bar and the bottom of the clutch, otherwise the downward force of the pedals being pushed would inevitably make the leg slip down. On the Carter I sold about a year ago, I used 1" metal spacers. I put a rubber O ring below the clutch, so as not to scratch the pedal bar.

[Jerry Overstreet]

Thanks Tucker. Yes, the photo is not very good. Sorry about that, but the plastic ring is beveled on both sides anyway.

I've already spent almost a whole day dealing with this and flopping the guitar over and over has left me worn out.

I may revisit all the clutch parts order etc. after some rest, but for now the guitar is pretty stable....I didn't dowel the rear legs but I might have to...it just seemed the front legs were the weakest holding up the weight.

I'd just like for the clutches to do what they're supposed to do to make adjustments easy and secure.

[Ian Worley]

First off, NOTHING should be lubricated in the clutch assembly. It relies on friction. Clean it all off with alcohol. The way it is assembled in the pic is correct. The surface that actually grips the lower tube is the inside face of the plastic bushing, that is, the ~5/8" center hole in the bushing. They get sort of polished up by sliding up and down the smaller tube over time. If you take some sand paper and rough up that interior surface it should grip better. Also make sure there is a small gap visible in the bushing when it is installed on the lower tube. If the inside surface has worn enough, the gap will shrink and it will no longer close enough on the tube to provide the necessary grip when the clutch nut compresses the bushing against the brass seat.

[Jerry Overstreet]

Post by Dan Beller-McKenna » Mon Mar 31, 2025 6:40 pm
Any time I've used spacers on the front legs, they've made contact with the top of the pedal bar and the bottom of the clutch, otherwise the downward force of the pedals being pushed would inevitably make the leg slip down. On the Carter I sold about a year ago, I used 1" metal spacers. I put a rubber O ring below the clutch, so as not to scratch the pedal bar.

Thanks, DB Mc, I see what you are saying and I have considered that and may still to that. I've fabbed several of those tubes and pedal rod extensions for others so I'm familiar with the process.

I just keep thinking about the old Dual Pro that I can adjust to standing position and they hold without any problem. Of course it may be less weighty and there is no pedal force to consider, but the legs won't hold just sitting it on the floor without using any pedals.

Thanks Ian, I can't see any reason why just a smidge of oil on just the leg threads would cause any problem....obviously nothing on the internal clutch parts.

I may revisit the plastic rings and see what that does at a later time but all the parts in there are just like new, legs hardly used.

Also, quite a few other pedal steelers have used the set collar method of raising their guitar heights. I'd be interested to hear from them regarding any slipping issues.

Thanks all.

[Donny Hinson]

The fiber or nylon split ring should go against the outer leg tube. Clean it with alcohol or lighter fluid.
It should be beveled on both ends, and it should have a gap of at least 1/16" when it's on the inner leg tube.

The brass or aluminum washer which is beveled on one side MUST go with the bevel towards the fiber/nylon ring, and the flat side of this washer MUST contact the the flat inner surface on the bottom of the knurled leg adjustment collar.

Make sure the threads on the outer tube are clean. DO NOT use oil as it creeps and migrates, and will eventually get on the other parts.

(If an added collar or spacer is used on the front legs, it negates any adjustment. But that's okay as the front legs do not normally require any adjustment, and it would not affect the locking mechanism.)

[Jerry Overstreet]

I've looked all over the internet for some photos of the correct assembly for these Atlas type clutch parts....nothing...

The order when I started on at least one of them was fiber/nylon split ring bevel next to the threaded part of the outer leg and the beveled washer in the clutch nut facing the split ring.

Troube with that is, the bevel washer was hung in the threads of the clutch nut so that it couldn't move. I was finally able to punch and drag it out of the nut. This doesn't seem right to me.

I'd love for any of the steel builders, rebuilders etc. that are knowledgeable in the correct assembly to post a couple pics. Since pictures speak louder than words, I believe that would help not only me, but everybody else wanting this info.

[Ian Worley]

The way you have it assembled in your pic is correct Jerry, but here is another pic. The plastic or fiber clutch ring is beveled equally on both ends, with a split (visible in the pic) to allow it to compress around the inner tube. The brass ring goes with female bevel out, toward the clutch ring. The clutch nut also has the female bevel at the top inside, when you tighten the outer clutch nut it compresses the beveled clutch ring from both ends to squeeze it (by way of the gap in the ring) tight around the inner tube. I believe the bevel angle is the same as a standard plumbing compression fitting, 37°.
.

20250331_155308.jpg

[Jerry Overstreet]

Thanks for the clearer pic Ian. That's the way I have them assembled. I'm really at a loss to explain the lack of grip.

These are pretty recent legs and the beveled washer is brass or bronze but the split rings appear to be nylon, so maybe that's the issue.

Since I've installed the dowels, I'm OK for now, but I'll revisit those later and try scuffing them up or maybe even replacing them with fiber ones. I'd really like for them to hold like they should so I can remove the dowels and the extra weight, although not much, that those add plus the rear ones need to be more secure too.