New buyer pitfalls?

[Sean Baker]

Hey all, first post. After doing a fair amount of research, I'm looking into buying a PSG. One thing I wondering about is: what are the traps that a new buyer might fall into when buying something used? With such a complicated-looking machine, it seems like it'd be easy to get one that's either not in good condition or isn't adjusted right. I don't know of anyone locally who plays or works on pedal steels, so I'm drifting on my own. Since I've never actually seen one in person, I assume I wouldn't even know if it was broken or not.

I'd get something new, but I don't have 5 grand to spend on a "maybe I'll like it, maybe I won't" hobby. It'd be nice to find one for $2k or less. Lots of people seem to recommend a Stage One, but apparently the wait time is 8+ months, so that's out.

I'm relatively close to Nashville and would've thought it'd be a good place to go to find one, but from what I've read that seems to not be the case anymore. (?) I did read that Johnie King here on the forum is the guy to talk to, so I sent him a PM. (Hopefully I messaged the right person.) Are there any shops that I might have missed in this area?

[Avery Bradshaw]

I would check out the Emmons shop in Sevierville TN. I believe they handle used steels as well as making new ones. Not sure for 2k or under if you will get a guitar that will take you beyond the beginner stages, but if you could swing 3k then you can get a really nice guitar that will last you a lifetime. Also look out for a Mullen Discovery. They are usually 3x4 or 4x4 and sound great.

[Henry Schuellerman]

I was in your shoes not too long ago. There is definitely a bit left up to chance when purchasing an instrument you don't know how to play yet. I would look for a used, modern, student model single neck (S10) from GFI, Justice, Growler, or Stage One. Those should be between $1K-$2K. Look on facebook marketplace or local sales on the forum.

If, like me, you end up driving a few hours to purchase your first steel second-hand, just make sure your knees can fit under the instrument and that each pedal / lever correctly raises or lowers the pitch as it's supposed to. As long as it's close enough, the changes can be fine tuned and you can use a higher or lower seat as needed.

Echoing most peoples advice, starting with E9 tuning and a steel that has 3 pedals x 4 knee levers is ideal. At least if you're trying to do traditional country stuff and hardcore licks. But honestly, I play slower and textural stuff in folk rock settings and would be entirely content with just one or two knee levers.

[Shaan Shirazi]

Check out the new Show Pro steels mentioned in this thread. Sounds almost too good to be true but I believe it is.

viewtopic.php?t=410386

[Stew Crookes]

There's a Zum Encore in the classifieds right now, and another one that just sold - there's still good steels out there for around 2K, the most important thing is to buy from someone who knows steels. It's not a good idea to buy from a guitar store that knows nothing about pedal steel but sells one every couple years, or from eBay / Reverb...

[Stew Crookes]

Check out the new Show Pro steels mentioned in this thread. Sounds almost too good to be true but I believe it is.

viewtopic.php?t=410386

These look very interesting!

[Sean Baker]

Thanks y'all. I hadn't heard about the Emmons shop. And yeah, I kind of expected Guitar Center/Reverb/eBay might be a bad idea.

If that Encore in the classifieds wasn't so far away, I might jump on it. I could probably stretch my budget to $2.5k.

That Show Pro *does* look very interesting. I wonder what compromises they had to make to get the price so low...

[Sean Baker]

What do people mean when they put " + ride" in the listing here on the forum?

[Doug Earnest]

+ ride would mean the cost of shipping is extra

[Colin Boutilier]

Thanks y'all. I hadn't heard about the Emmons shop. And yeah, I kind of expected Guitar Center/Reverb/eBay might be a bad idea.

If that Encore in the classifieds wasn't so far away, I might jump on it. I could probably stretch my budget to $2.5k.

That Show Pro *does* look very interesting. I wonder what compromises they had to make to get the price so low...

The biggest compromise is that they are a Pull-Release changer.

[Sean Baker]

+ ride would mean the cost of shipping is extra

Ah, thanks.

The biggest compromise is that they are a Pull-Release changer.

Is that a bad thing? Based on what I've read, people say the tone and tuning stability is better with pull-release and that the downside is not being able to raise and lower the same string simultaneously. Anything I'm missing? Is the ability to raise and lower the same string really that important?

[Brooks Montgomery]

Look for a used all-pull Zum Encore (or get in line for a new one from Doug). They play and sound fantastic. You won’t outgrow it. They are light, compact, and portable for gigging. Doug Earnest will be there to help with questions. Any steel mechanic can work on it. Your hair will grow back where you’ve been scratching your head with all the mysteries and pitfalls of different types, models, and brands.
At least, that’s my experience.

[Bobby D. Jones]

On a pull and release changer, To Raise a string or Lower a string can be set up rather easy, To tune and work with no problem.
On a modern E9th tuning, The 4th-8th strings Raise E-F and Lower E-D#. This is where the Raise/Lower on same string problem shows up, And becomes a problem.
All pull changer have more parts and takes more work installing in a guitar, And setting up proper. For easy set up with Raise/Lower on any string.

[Steve Lipsey]

New buyer pitfall #1 is buying new...
Buy from the "for sale" section of this forum...we all depend on our reputation to be able to keep selling here, you won't get screwed. And you can search for past posts by/about that seller, and for the history of the steel you are buying...
And when you sell - and you will sell, I'd wager that nobody here has stayed with their first steel - you can sell for what you paid for it, minus shipping...
So you can spend more than you think you want to, and get a good steel, because you won't lose when you re-sell it...

[Donny Hinson]

The biggest compromise is that they are a Pull-Release changer.

Is that a bad thing? Based on what I've read, people say the tone and tuning stability is better with pull-release and that the downside is not being able to raise and lower the same string simultaneously. Anything I'm missing? Is the ability to raise and lower the same string really that important?

No, the tone may be slightly "different", but "better is purely subjective judgement. As far as tuning goes, they're no better or worse, it all depends on who built them and who maintains them. There's nothing wrong with using one if that's what you prefer, but I can say pretty confidently that very, very few of the pros these days still prefer to use pull/release guitars. That kinda tells you what you need to know when it comes to all-pull vs. pull/release.

All-pull changer guitars are far easier to make changes on, and they adapt very well to complex setups. They've also come to the point of having a consistently good sound, and that why most builders and players prefer them.

[Donny Hinson]

The biggest compromise is that they are a Pull-Release changer.

Is that a bad thing? Based on what I've read, people say the tone and tuning stability is better with pull-release and that the downside is not being able to raise and lower the same string simultaneously. Anything I'm missing? Is the ability to raise and lower the same string really that important?

No, the tone may be slightly "different", but "better is a purely subjective judgement. As far as tuning goes, they're no better or worse, it all depends on who built them and who maintains them. There's nothing wrong with using one if that's what you prefer, but I can say pretty confidently that very, very few of the pros these days still prefer to use pull/release guitars. That kinda tells you what you need to know when it comes to all-pull vs. pull/release.

All-pull changer guitars are far easier to make changes on, and they adapt very well to complex setups. They've also come to the point of having a consistently good sound, and that why most builders and players prefer them.

[Michael Hill]

I'd buy the most expensive used one you can afford.
- If it ends up not working out, you should be able to recoup all or most of what you spent
- Pedal steel is hard enough even when everything is working right. i.e. quality is important and price is a good indicator of quality

Don't buy vintage. Vintage could be 'old and cool'. But in a lot of cases, it's more like 'old and worn out'. A lot of mechanics on a pedal steel and just like an old vintage car, might require a lot of maintenance.

[Bobby D. Jones]

An all pull changer has the advantage of raising and lowering the same string.
Raising and lowering the same string is important, In modern E9th tunings.

The 4th and 8th raise from E to F, Lower to E to D# on a knee levers.

The 2nd string on some copendentents raise D# to E on a knee lever, And lower D# to C# on a knee lever is found.

The 5th string is raised on A pedal B to C#. If the guitar has a 5th vertical knee lever, Lower 5th String B to A#/Bb is a common change.

The 6th string raises G# to A on B pedal is a must have. Some copendents have the 6Th string lower to F# on a knee lever.

With 5 strings being raised and lowered, On different copendents, The All Pull Changer has big an advantage. And is why all Pro Class modern guitars have All Pull Changers.

[Bob Hoffnar]

I have had a few of the affordable Justice steels come through for students and they were really pretty good steels.

I would recommend them.