Volume pedals with/without a buffer

[Daniel Morris]

I'm looking for a volume pedal without a buffer.
The Goodrich OMNI doesn't have a 'traditional' buffer; it does have an op amp.
The Telonics has a buffer.
Does the standard Goodrich L120 have some sort of buffer?
I'm interested in a buffer-less volume pedal, as a buffer can wreak havoc on a Germanium fuzz.
Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.

[Richard Sinkler]

Goodrich 120 pedals are passive pedals. The only thing in there is a potentiometer.

[Daniel Morris]

Thanks, Richard.
Goodrich also confirmed there's no buffer in the L-120.

[Dave Mudgett]

There are a lot of passive pedals out there. Goodrich L120, old Sho Bud (my personal preference), the old Emmons pedals; Franklin, ZumSteel, BMI, lots of makers have made them, and they show up in the classifieds periodically. These are generally ~500K Ohms. Ernie Balls are passive, but generally 250K Ohms, which tend to be pretty dark-sounding with typically overwound pedal steel pickups. The main issue with pot pedals is getting decent pots. I think I have a lifetime supply of old Allen-Bradley 500K pots for my Sho Buds, but the current Dunlop/Goodrich pots are generally considered good.

According to the Goodrich website, the OMNI (both lo and hi profile) can switch between active and a strictly passive (470K) pot - https://goodrichsoundcompany.com/product/omni-highpro/

The Omni is both an active or passive pedal, switchable by the push of a button. Excellent, even tone throughout the sweep, with no loss of power and no noise. Parallel inputs and outputs are available on both sides of its aluminum diecast body. This pedal also includes a tuner out on both sides, and while in active mode, utilizes signature Goodrich impedance matching circuitry. An excellent choice for guitar, pedal steel, violin, bass, keys…anything that plugs in!

PASSIVE MODE:
However, in Passive Mode, we decided to stay with the tried and true method of potentiometer and string actuation. Why mess with a good thing! Our Goodrich 470k potentiometer has a subtle and slight mid-range bump that is part of our classic pot sound. The Omni Passive Mode has superb feel and sound with minimal high-end loss. [ Battery is disconnected in Passive Mode. ]

[Daniel Morris]

Thanks, Dave.
I've been using the OMNI in passive mode only, with no problem.
However, I decided to change the order of my pedal chain, which then put the volume pedal ahead of a Sputnik IIb Germanium fuzz. When I engage the pedal, there's a boost in volume, but no fuzz. I've been in touch with a guy at Sputnik, and so far there's no concrete reason the fuzz doesn't come on. I even went: pedal steel > VP > Sputnik IIb > amp, and it's the same story. Putting the IIb ahead of the VP yields fuzz as I'm used to. Strange....

[Dave Mudgett]

... When I engage the pedal, there's a boost in volume, but no fuzz. ...

There is generally some loss of signal at the fully toe-down position on passive volume pedals. Even if the pot is fully-on, there is the 470K Ohm pot, which cuts the signal some.

But depending on how the pedal is adjusted, there can be significant loss of signal fully toe-down. If you set up the pedal so it's pushes the pot to the very end, it eventually kills the pot. There are lots of past threads on this issue - here's a recent one with very useful information - viewtopic.php?p=3248401

In any case - my experience with fuzz pedals is that they can be very, very sensitive to signal level. As Jim P. says in that thread, it would be typical to lose around 15% of the signal (he says fully-on is typically about 85%). If it's adjusted so the pot is totally off in the toe-up position, you may lose more than that. In my experience, even a relatively small signal cut can be enough to significantly change fuzz behavior. It depends on the fuzz. But the typical fuzz pedal is designed to basically do very little to nothing until it hits a certain point, and then totally square-wave clip the signal. The range in between may be fairly small.

Anyway - you are apparently already using a passive volume pedal with a 470K Ohm pot, and what I'm saying is that moving to a different passive volume pedal may not fix your problem. And you're using one of the best volume pedals out there. I personally just use old Sho Bud volume pedals with old Allen-Bradley 500K pots, and I definitely get some signal cut at toe-down, regardless of how I set it up.

Some fuzz pedals have a sensitivity pot that allow you to increase the input signal going into the fuzz circuit. I'm not familiar with that specific pedal, but the Sputnik IIb Deluxe fuzzes I see online have a pile of knobs. If that's it, you may be able to work this out by increasing the signal to the clipping circuit by increasing that sensitivity.

I never assume much with fuzz, in terms of how it's supposed to work. Whatever sounds good works for me. Sometimes that's putting it directly after the instrument, sometimes that's putting it somewhere else in the chain. To get the classic sounds, fuzzes generally want to see the pickup directly, but that's the classic fuzz pedals. And the other issue is that every fuzz pedal I have ever used sounds different - even ones of the same model. Especially Germanium transistors can be very individual. And the same exact fuzz pedal may well sound quite different with different guitars. The output impedance of whatever is going into the fuzz pedal can have a large effect. This is one of the reasons that people often make the rule to not put them after a typical high-impedance-in/low-impedance-out pedal. Add a wah to the fuzz, and there are even more potential issues. But I have found that 'the rules" sometimes don't work for me with fuzz.

[Mike Auman]

Thanks, Dave.
I've been using the OMNI in passive mode only, with no problem.
However, I decided to change the order of my pedal chain, which then put the volume pedal ahead of a Sputnik IIb Germanium fuzz. When I engage the pedal, there's a boost in volume, but no fuzz. I've been in touch with a guy at Sputnik, and so far there's no concrete reason the fuzz doesn't come on. I even went: pedal steel > VP > Sputnik IIb > amp, and it's the same story. Putting the IIb ahead of the VP yields fuzz as I'm used to. Strange....

I agree with Dave's insights. In addition, fuzz pedals, including your Sputnik, interact strongly with the pickup (and on an armpit guitar, with the volume and tone controls.) When you put any other device between pickup and fuzz, the results are usually disappointing. A passive volume pedal is less likely to offend a fuzz, but based on your experience I suspect your Omni still has part of the buffer circuit engaged even in "passive" mode, which is killing the fuzziness. Solution is to run your fuzz first in the signal chain, that's what it expects. You could also try a string-and-pot volume pedal, which should be better.

[Daniel Morris]

Thanks for all the detailed replies, gents!
I may simply need to keep my usual signal chain if I'm using fuzz, and only switch if I don't need the fuzz.

[Richard Sinkler]

I always run overdrive/distortion/ fuzz pedal before the volume pedal. Those types of effects work best right out of the guitar.